frmagecouncil | EMERGENCY POST RIFT IN SKYHOLD MEETING ( BACKDATED )

Please do not reply to this comment, then a list of councilors and how they're (likely) to vote: yes, no, abstains, undecided see below.

Councilor Vivienne - Yea, Yea, Yea, Yea to training, Yea to templars
Councilor Thevenet - Yea, Abstains, Yea, Yea to training, Nay to templars
Councilor LeBlanc - Yea, Yea, Yea, Yea to training, Nay to templars
Councilor Ataash - Yea, Yea, Yea, Yea to training, Nay to templars
Councilor E. Ashara - Yea, Other, Yea, Yea to training, Other* to templars
Councilor Abhorsen - Yea, Other, Abstains, Yea to training, Yea* to templars
Councilor NPCS - ???

* - if the individual wishes to train with a Templar then yes, but not mandatory

Edited 2016-02-10 22:24 (UTC)

Subthreads, Councillors names in the subject line. Please indicate how your Councilor feels, if they can or cannot be swayed, what would need to be said to sway their opinion, etc.

Adelaide is going to push for formalized research on the shards, how they effect the bodies they're in (seeing as Sina's almost killed her, and how they effect rifts beyond closing them as being able to open them wasn't thought to be something they needed to worry about. Now? It is a concern. Sorting out how it happened is part one, sorting out how to keep it from happening is part two, and maybe looking for a way to remove them without killing the rifters/other people stuck with them could be a goal down the line.

Demons are awful, Adelaide is all for thorough training to fight them on this side of the fade. They're nasty and anything they can do to prepare mages/rifters/anyone for dealing with them? Is for the good of the Inquisition.

The best recommendation she can make against preventing this ties into the next two points on the Agenda: Supervision. Step one: Having every mage with any kind of skill learn how to dispell magic, dispell it well, and dispell it quickly. Magic is what twisted the rifts open, either by overuse or by pulling on the fade; preventing a spell from being cast might not be the neatest solution nor the most effective but it COULD work. Not having to lean on Templars for this is a benefit for those uncomfortable around templars, and keeping explosions, burning cooks, and other things from getting out of control is another obvious benefit.

Step two is keeping mages skilled in dispelling magic and nipping this shit at the bud around Sina in particular as this was thoroughly inadvertent on her part; and on hand whenever rifters with magical aptitudes start pulling on the fade. Some research into how their individual magic works with the fade in particular wouldn't be remiss either. This is their problem, they need to work on fixing it, and preventing something like this from happening in the future. The key to that is understanding what happened and how it works. TO THAT END:

She's very behind petitioning for funds for the research, so they have a safe space to do it in, resources that'll keep things contained if anything goes wrong, and a tea/coffee allowance. Seriously has anyone tried to do research without coffee? It's awful.

TL;DR, yes to all the above with a hard NO on templar involvement for supervision/training. They're supposed to be learning to work on their own. Let them work it out on their own. Involving them now would be taking five steps back into the system they're trying to break away from. She cannot be swayed on this.

Edited 2016-02-08 20:32 (UTC)

More or less; Korrin agrees to all of the above, though absolutely refuses to support any mandatory Templar involvement for the same reasons as Adelaide. There's no swaying her on this topic. She also supports Dispel as a mandatory mage spell and mages learning it promptly. And lastly, she'd want to ensure that supervision for those involved is done in a way that respects their rights. She's here to see that they don't go the way of the Circle when it comes to the treatment of those involved.

Edited 2016-02-08 21:18 (UTC)

I'm going to format my councilor thoughts using the final vote form, just to keep it organized. Also, Ellana will be relaying her thoughts via sending crystal.

Supervision for Sina? Yes. Ellana is worried for Sina and thinks she should have someone close at hand, not just to dispel magic that is deemed dangerous, but in case Sina just passes out or something. She is so upset about Sina's heart stopping (I'm assuming this was discussed at the meeting? If not, I'll retcon.) and wants her to have someone who can get Sina help at a moment's notice. She doesn't want this person or people to be a Templar, however. Mages who can dispel will be enough. When it comes to Sina, Ellana has strong opinions about how to keep her safe, and while she's open to ideas, she won't agree to anything that would put Sina in more danger than she's already in.

Supervision for Magic Rifters? Other. Ellana believes that only those who want to practice their magic should have supervision. If they have magic, but don't use it, they don't have to be watched. If they want to use it/experiment/whatever, they should grab a mage buddy who can dispel magic just in case.

Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yes, this sounds like a good idea.

Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Yes on training without Templars. Anyone who wants to train with Templars can go ahead and do so, but Ellana would not make it mandatory and can't be swayed to reconsider it.

Supervision for Sina? Benevenuta thinks it's a good idea - she has reservations about the form it might take, however, and doesn't think the task should go to a Templar or Templars. A mage should definitely be involved in said supervision, as they need to learn to understand these marks and how they interact with magic, and she further puts forward that they might consider approaching Seeker Reed as someone they might propose to the Inquisition leadership would be a suitable non-mage supervisor as a compromise. (Obviously, he might not want the job slash his player might not be keen, but Benevenuta will raise it as a conversation point.)

Supervision for Magic Rifters? Benevenuta thinks this should be folded into the research into the shards, what they mean and what they do and how they interact with magic - the rifters are so varied in what they're capable of, Benevenuta hesitates to kneejerk and potentially alienate them. If there are other mages with rift shards, like Sina, yes because it's been proved there is a rather large potential issue with them; if there are rifters with magic, what the risk factor is should be examined before they act on it too hastily.

Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Strong yes, but not "let's just put our hands out", she would prefer to see if they can figure out potential ways to raise some funds and bring a proposal for how to get funding to the Inquisition. If they can contribute in that way, they come out of it looking a lot better and it's harder to complain that ~the rebel mages expect a free ride~ here.

Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Training to battle demons is a good idea. Those mages who wish to train with Templars already have the opportunity to do so with Maria Hill and Dorian Pavus and Benevenuta sees no reason to force Templars on anyone else.

There is no argument that will get her to support Templar involvement beyond Dorian and Maria's existing training programs.

Korrin definitely agrees with Benevenuta's thoughts re: shard-bearer supervision. Alienating them is not a good idea, so they need to come up with a balance somehow.

Ellana agrees with the proposal to raise funds for research, instead of just expecting money. This helps the mages look both self-sufficient and not like money wasters if their research is slow going or has no solid results.

Vivienne agrees entirely with Adelaide on all points except the matter of Templar involvement. She will point out, clearly and firmly that Templars are tools, and very effective tools at that as regards fighting demons or any other magic gone out of control. Which clearly this fiasco was just that, magic gone entirely out of control in some way. "It'd be marvelous if everyone could stop thinking with their prejudices and consider the greater picture as regards the Templars." Vivienne's not about to give them one more inch of control or authority than they have rightfully earned but throwing away a beneficial asset is foolishness.

She would also put forward that Knight-Commander Norrington and his men have already demonstrated themselves to be honorable, fair, even-handed, and very aware of their duties and boundaries and she dares anyone present to say otherwise.

She's not gonna budge from the opinion that Templars are vital and should be used.

Ellana would respectfully disagree, pointing out that while Vivienne may see Templars as tools, the Templars may not see themselves that way. It all comes down to the individual person. Some see themselves as protectors of mages, but whether that means offering protection or extending full control depends entirely on who trained the Templar, and where, and what the Circle they served in was like, and if they experienced trauma with the war and now hate all mages, etc.

She will agree that Norrington and his group from Ostwick seem to have their heads on straight, but will point out that they can't be everywhere at once and the council shouldn't expect them to always be there to help them. That's why Ellana believes that any mage who wishes for Templar help with training should feel free to seek out a Templar they can trust and they can set something up individually. The New Templar Order is still in its infancy, and there's no telling how exactly the Templars wish to present themselves to others yet. The mage council certainly shouldn't snap their fingers and expect the Templars to hop to, no matter how nicely they word it. And besides, any help coming from the Templars should be voluntary to mages. There's no telling which mages were traumatized by Templars, just like there's no telling which Templars were traumatized by mages. The training should be opt in, if Templars volunteer to help.

(I know Vivienne won't budge, but Ellana will just say her peace and let others chime in, or they can move on, agreeing to disagree. She knows Vivienne has strong opinions and is very well spoken, so she won't keep arguing about this, because Viv was very clear.)

Supervision for Sina? Yes. There should be mages involved, absolutely, because if Sina gets worse, a healer should be on hand, and as the Council as a whole is planning to research and learn about the shards and what they do, that research should go towards helping Sina considering the location of her shard.

Who else is involved in her security should be up to Sina. If she doesn't want Templars, then no Templars. Sabriel will suggest Seekers or Wardens as alternatives.

Supervision for Magic Rifters? Sabriel will give a very hasty no, followed by a yes, and will keep changing her mind throughout the meeting. She will not explain as to why, though if asked about it on a break, she may mention she feels a little apprehensive (and afraid) of Rifters as a group because it forces her to think and question her beliefs a little too much for her liking. She won't expand beyond that. (Basically, they came out of the Rifts, from the Fade, and Sabriel's general view on things coming from the Fade is that they should be sent back - she is wary of deliberately inviting spirits/demons across into Thedas because what if one that cannot survive the world is called upon? She deals with this by not thinking about it unless she has to.) However, she doesn't want to say yes because of her personal apprehension, or no for the same. Eventually she will settle with agreeing with Ellana that those who have magic could be watched, because, as Benny points out, there has already been an incident that was almost fatal.

Sabriel will also mention that, like with the previous emergency meeting in regards to the abomination and what has been put in place since, that they have to take steps to prevent it from happening again, but whilst supervision might be good for the short term, safeguards would be better in the long term (which will hopefully be resolved by training, research, etc). She will suggest that if they do opt for supervision, this should be regularly reassessed.

She will not be against Templars in regards to supervision and cannot be swayed on this. Whether it be a mage or a templar is irrelevant, but it should be agreed upon with the Rifter first.

Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yes, as it's for the good of Skyhold's population at large. But she'd be reluctant to just go and ask and demand, as y'know, already staring at the Inquisition heads for funds/an army/resources/etc for help with the Wardens. Sabriel will respectfully decline from signing any petition, even if she did support it. (Unless they can contribute as Benny says. Then she'd agree to have herself included. But she'd feel bad, otherwise.)

Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Sabriel will agree with Vivienne that Templars should, again, be utilised, but in this instance that there should be more of a priority for mages to be able to deal with demons alone before help arrives.

Sabriel will admit she has some talent in dispelling spirits (and demons) from entering this side of the Fade and how to bind and banish spirits should they do so anyway, so she could attempt to assist in teaching this to others if it was wanted.

Supervision for Sina? A large majority of the NPC councilors will support supervision. A slight majority will support requiring that supervision to come from a Templar or Seeker. Whether or not that majority is large enough to overcome the PC councilors, we'll leave up to Sina's player--the PCs could be outvoted if Sina's player wants her to be forced to deal with a Templar, but if not, it can just be a close call.

Supervision for Magic Rifters? A firm majority will be in favor of at least minimal supervision, such as requiring rifters to only practice magic within Skyhold in a specific area that can be watched. A large minority will want Templar involvement. (They don't have shards.)

Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yes please. Fundraising is also cool.

Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? All in favor of training; a minority in favor of requiring mages to work with Templars, but the majority will want that to be optional.

On all three of the questions where potential Templar involvement is at issue, one NPC councilor in particular will argue fervently for including them in the process--not out of trust, but because involving them will prevent them from later claiming that additional accidents or mishaps could have been prevented if they had been included and leveraging that for even greater control in the future.

Anything else that should be brought to the Council's attention, either from the other Council Members OR any of the observing members of the public.

If your character has a concern for the Mage Council and want it addressed during the meeting, fill out the form below

Edited 2016-02-08 20:12 (UTC)

Character Name: Beleth Ashara
Concern/Request: Beleth would, politely, request if there was some way that ordinary people who weren't mages or templars learn how to dispel magic, or maybe some way of enchanting items for ordinary people to contain something similar to dispel? If an item could be enchanted, then someone who needs supervision could pick their own person, and the person could get the enchanted item. It might help people who are neither templars nor mages feel more safe, and the supervised person feel more secure with someone they trust.
Is it urgent?: Not really. She just wants to know if it's possible / worth looking into.
Suggested course of action, if any: Maybe doing some research? Or, you know, whatever you want, she's just throwing ideas out there.

Dispelling requires either skill in magic or the system of skills templars employ; there is unfortunately not any way she knows of for the average person to dispel magic. Looking into that manner of enchantment is something they could gear research towards.

Character Name: Galadriel
Concern/Request: Supervision - Objection
Is it urgent?: Yes
Suggested course of action, if any: Supervision of Rifters is a pointless endeavor that assumes much about the power and skills of other realms. If our skills are not quantifiable by your measure, as most are, why then should we be assigned your variety of supervision? It is a needless waste of resources allocated to police a skillset you cannot account for, nor claim knowledge of. If native mages are to have their freedom, grant the same to those not of this world. After all, was it not a native mage who opened the recent rift? Why then should those from other lands be monitored? What if we are not more skilled to deal with these marks than yourselves? To cast suspicion on Rifters, thusly, is to all but assume we will spontaneously suffer the same fate as Sina. It is a theory that has no foundation beyond fear and suspicion, a vicious sort of prediction, and it is a concept that Galadriel refuses entertain.

Benny's thoughts on it may interest her! She and Korrin are both "team don't alienate the rifters by acting thoughtlessly".

The suggestion was a knee jerk reaction meant to cover the council's ass- but Gaadriel's points are more than valid enough for her to amend it to include native mages with shards as not enough is known of Rifter magic to make the point or suggestion relevant.

That said, research into how rifter magic might interact is something she'll make a point of discussion at a later date.

Character Name: Adelaide LeBlanc
Concern/Request: Fundraising
Is it urgent?: Relatively
Suggested course of action, if any: Dedicate a portion of the meeting after the initial vote is cast to discuss possible means of raising funds.

An OPTIONAL space for IC interactions regarding the discussion at hand, before/after/during a teabreak conversation, etc.

Please do not reply to one another's comments as changes of opinion/vote might be made and edits required, thank you!

Supervision for Sina? Yea, no Templars.
Supervision for Magic Rifters? Other. (Basically yea, but only with a solid plan and the cooperation of shard-bearers.)
Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yea
Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Yea, WITHOUT Templar involvement.

Edited 2016-02-10 22:57 (UTC)

Supervision for Sina? Yea, not Templars
Supervision for Magic Rifters? She wants proof they do or do not need it, and objects to voting on it without that.
Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yea, bundled with a fundraising proposal
Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Yea, without Templars

Supervision for Sina? Yea, no Templar
Supervision for Magic Rifters? Other; only the ones with magic, and the rifter should ask for a watcher to dispel magic if they're going to practice. Nobody should have a constant watch.
Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yea, going along with Benny's fundraising idea.
Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Other; mages can train together, or mages and Templars can reach out to each other with the Templars' volunteering. Nothing should be mandatory on either side.

Supervision for Sina? Yea, Sina's choice to Templars or other alternatives
Supervision for Magic Rifters? Other; only those with magic, and as to who is monitoring them agreed upon by the Rifter in question. She will insist that if the council opts for supervision, this need should be regularly reassessed/readdressed in each council session to come.
Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Abstains. The idea has her full support, but she cannot in good conscience attach her name to it at this time (unless fundraising goes ahead.)
Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Yea; yea to Templars, also, but not mandatory; priority should be giving to mages being able to dispell and combat demons alone if outside help is not available, however.

Edited 2016-02-12 01:05 (UTC)

Supervision for Sina? Yea, with Templars (50%+ in favor)
Supervision for Magic Rifters? Yea, on a limited basis (60% in favor); nay on Templar involvement (40% in favor)
Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yea (100% in favor)
Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Yea (100% in favor); Templars optional (20% in favor).

Supervision for Sina? Yes. Emphatically. For her own good. Templars are good.
Supervision for Magic Rifters? Yes.
Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Yea
Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Yes with Templars present for backup if/when things go bad.

Supervision for Sina? Yea
Supervision for Magic Rifters? For sharded Native Mages, yes. Not enough data on foreign means of magic to be relevant.
Petition the Inquisition for funds for research? Offer opportunities to Fundraise their own.
Train with (or without) Templars to learn to battle demons? Yae, without templars.

EMERGENCY POST RIFT IN SKYHOLD MEETING ( BACKDATED )

VOTE FORECAST

Councilor Thoughts

Councilor LeBlanc

Councilor Ataash

Councilor E. Ashara

also formatting with the vote for ease

no subject

no subject

Councilor de Fer

no subject

Councilor Abhorsen

NPCs

ADDITIONAL CONCERNS / PETITIONS

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

Change of Opinion

no subject

IN CHARACTER THREADS

FINAL VOTE

Councilor Ataash

no subject

Councilor E. Ashara

Councilor Abhorsen

NPCs

Councilor de Fer

Councilor LeBlanc